Comments on: Obamas Trip to China Shows Just Who Has the Upper Hand http://www.ktracy.com/2009/obamas-trip-to-china-shows-just-who-has-the-upper-hand/ and his most excellent contributors Mon, 08 Mar 2010 15:13:34 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: briand http://www.ktracy.com/2009/obamas-trip-to-china-shows-just-who-has-the-upper-hand/comment-page-1/#comment-935 briand Mon, 23 Nov 2009 21:53:38 +0000 http://www.ktracy.com/?p=280#comment-935 Cable television is hardly a measure of standard of living. I am looking at all the houses in foreclosure on my street. I am looking at all the debt that people have. I am looking at high unemployment and low GDP. Bankers, lawyers, and investment brokers do not really produce anything, they simply exploit and extract from producers. They are a part of the problem. But I completely agree that high corporate taxes drive away capital. I believe that we could very easily arive at a balance of trade if marginal changes were made. If corporate tax rates were cut by 20% and tariffs raised by 20% we could have a revenue neutral policy that could balance trade and shift production to this nation. Cable television is hardly a measure of standard of living. I am looking at all the houses in foreclosure on my street. I am looking at all the debt that people have. I am looking at high unemployment and low GDP. Bankers, lawyers, and investment brokers do not really produce anything, they simply exploit and extract from producers. They are a part of the problem. But I completely agree that high corporate taxes drive away capital. I believe that we could very easily arive at a balance of trade if marginal changes were made. If corporate tax rates were cut by 20% and tariffs raised by 20% we could have a revenue neutral policy that could balance trade and shift production to this nation.

]]> By: Travis Gearhart http://www.ktracy.com/2009/obamas-trip-to-china-shows-just-who-has-the-upper-hand/comment-page-1/#comment-902 Travis Gearhart Sat, 21 Nov 2009 02:38:40 +0000 http://www.ktracy.com/?p=280#comment-902 As far as the lower standard of living, I disagree completely. Even among some of the poorest, many still have more than one TV, often times cable, and often times more tahn one vehicle. The problem is the difference between "surviving" and "living comfartably" have become merged so that a person can be happy being poor, not go hungry, and not have to worry. On top of that brian, you know for a fact that I'm not an ideologue and quite frankly I'm a little offended you would suggest such a thing. As far as the lower standard of living, I disagree completely. Even among some of the poorest, many still have more than one TV, often times cable, and often times more tahn one vehicle. The problem is the difference between “surviving” and “living comfartably” have become merged so that a person can be happy being poor, not go hungry, and not have to worry. On top of that brian, you know for a fact that I’m not an ideologue and quite frankly I’m a little offended you would suggest such a thing.

]]> By: Travis Gearhart http://www.ktracy.com/2009/obamas-trip-to-china-shows-just-who-has-the-upper-hand/comment-page-1/#comment-901 Travis Gearhart Sat, 21 Nov 2009 02:36:04 +0000 http://www.ktracy.com/?p=280#comment-901 Were $800 billion in debt not because of free trade, but because we needed them to purchase our debt in order to pass that worthless stimulus bill. Our unemployment rate isn't because of free trade. Trade accounts for almost 30% of private sector jobs. Our manufacturing base has been wiped out because, as I noted before, the are propped up by government dollars and have no reason to innovate. That, and the fact that because of a tax system that treats businesses like monsters, they often go overseas. We've haven't lost our ability to produce, we are just becoming a different nation. More and more people are going to college after high school, and those that don't feel "to good" to step into production and so work at McDonalds while picking up check sfrom the government. If we want to become a nation that starts producing more things on our own (which I agree, would be great), we have to realize that free trade isn't the enemy. The way in which we handle economic problems is, combined with a new path. More people are becoming bankers, lawyers, and investment brokers, and less are going into blue collar jobs. Thats just a fact, and if we try to fandangle with that, we begin to fall into the behavioural control argument. Were $800 billion in debt not because of free trade, but because we needed them to purchase our debt in order to pass that worthless stimulus bill. Our unemployment rate isn’t because of free trade. Trade accounts for almost 30% of private sector jobs. Our manufacturing base has been wiped out because, as I noted before, the are propped up by government dollars and have no reason to innovate. That, and the fact that because of a tax system that treats businesses like monsters, they often go overseas. We’ve haven’t lost our ability to produce, we are just becoming a different nation. More and more people are going to college after high school, and those that don’t feel “to good” to step into production and so work at McDonalds while picking up check sfrom the government. If we want to become a nation that starts producing more things on our own (which I agree, would be great), we have to realize that free trade isn’t the enemy. The way in which we handle economic problems is, combined with a new path. More people are becoming bankers, lawyers, and investment brokers, and less are going into blue collar jobs. Thats just a fact, and if we try to fandangle with that, we begin to fall into the behavioural control argument.

]]> By: briand http://www.ktracy.com/2009/obamas-trip-to-china-shows-just-who-has-the-upper-hand/comment-page-1/#comment-900 briand Sat, 21 Nov 2009 00:59:26 +0000 http://www.ktracy.com/?p=280#comment-900 Travis, So if free trade works so well for us why are we $800 Billion in debt to the Chinese? Why do they get to follow a different set of rules than us? Why do we have 17% unemployment and a declining standard of living? Why has our manufacturing base been wiped out? If you look at the results you will realize that it does not work. A nation that looses its ability to produce is destined to become dependent on others. This has implications for sovereignty and security. Put your nation above party and ideology. We are Americans first. Travis,

So if free trade works so well for us why are we $800 Billion in debt to the Chinese? Why do they get to follow a different set of rules than us? Why do we have 17% unemployment and a declining standard of living? Why has our manufacturing base been wiped out? If you look at the results you will realize that it does not work. A nation that looses its ability to produce is destined to become dependent on others. This has implications for sovereignty and security. Put your nation above party and ideology. We are Americans first.

]]> By: Travis Gearhart http://www.ktracy.com/2009/obamas-trip-to-china-shows-just-who-has-the-upper-hand/comment-page-1/#comment-888 Travis Gearhart Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:42:52 +0000 http://www.ktracy.com/?p=280#comment-888 And actually, Republicans have been the opposite of lobbyists from China recently, mostly because of the Bush administrations to limit foreign steel imports. And actually, Republicans have been the opposite of lobbyists from China recently, mostly because of the Bush administrations to limit foreign steel imports.

]]> By: Travis Gearhart http://www.ktracy.com/2009/obamas-trip-to-china-shows-just-who-has-the-upper-hand/comment-page-1/#comment-887 Travis Gearhart Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:41:05 +0000 http://www.ktracy.com/?p=280#comment-887 I disagree completely, Brian. Free trade does prevail, yes, when it is truly free trade. We haven't allowed certain imports since damn near the beginning of this country. Sugar is a huge one, and steel has been another huge one and is mostly the one that I focus on. I work out at US Steel, and the antique machinery that is used is only used because they are not forced to innovate. And why would they innovate? Politicians have made it clear that cheaper Chinese steel won't be allowed in. The American steel companies have a government created monopoly. I don't blame China for being restrictive when it comes to trade with us. On the other hand, I have no problem with us manufacturing our own goods and lessening our dependence on China IF we start making it profitable to become an American business again (and I don't see that coming on the horizon). Don't get me wrong, as I stated, I would certainly like everything to have a "buy American" label, but realistically, unless we have some major economic reforms, thats not going to happen. I disagree completely, Brian. Free trade does prevail, yes, when it is truly free trade. We haven’t allowed certain imports since damn near the beginning of this country. Sugar is a huge one, and steel has been another huge one and is mostly the one that I focus on. I work out at US Steel, and the antique machinery that is used is only used because they are not forced to innovate. And why would they innovate? Politicians have made it clear that cheaper Chinese steel won’t be allowed in. The American steel companies have a government created monopoly. I don’t blame China for being restrictive when it comes to trade with us. On the other hand, I have no problem with us manufacturing our own goods and lessening our dependence on China IF we start making it profitable to become an American business again (and I don’t see that coming on the horizon). Don’t get me wrong, as I stated, I would certainly like everything to have a “buy American” label, but realistically, unless we have some major economic reforms, thats not going to happen.

]]> By: briand http://www.ktracy.com/2009/obamas-trip-to-china-shows-just-who-has-the-upper-hand/comment-page-1/#comment-886 briand Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:10:40 +0000 http://www.ktracy.com/?p=280#comment-886 At one point I read that China holds $800 Billion in debt. Then I read the amazing statement that "free trade is shown to prevail". If it were working for us we would not be in so much debt to them. It could well be argued that we do not have free trade because they block their markets to our products. Why is it that we are always the bad guy when we do the same to them? It sounds like most Republicans are simply lobbyists for China, they are never at fault. Let us have real free trade or let us have protectionism but lets not keep things the way they are now, call it free trade, and watch our nation implode. We have been begging for them to open markets since I was in diapers and it never seems to happen. They will never do it, why are we so dense on this. I suppose we should expect them to act in their own self interest, could we once think of acting in ours? It is time to try protectionism. You are right about them winning the game, just wrong about how we can turn it around. At one point I read that China holds $800 Billion in debt. Then I read the amazing statement that “free trade is shown to prevail”. If it were working for us we would not be in so much debt to them. It could well be argued that we do not have free trade because they block their markets to our products. Why is it that we are always the bad guy when we do the same to them? It sounds like most Republicans are simply lobbyists for China, they are never at fault. Let us have real free trade or let us have protectionism but lets not keep things the way they are now, call it free trade, and watch our nation implode. We have been begging for them to open markets since I was in diapers and it never seems to happen. They will never do it, why are we so dense on this. I suppose we should expect them to act in their own self interest, could we once think of acting in ours? It is time to try protectionism. You are right about them winning the game, just wrong about how we can turn it around.

]]> By: Travis Gearhart http://www.ktracy.com/2009/obamas-trip-to-china-shows-just-who-has-the-upper-hand/comment-page-1/#comment-882 Travis Gearhart Thu, 19 Nov 2009 22:31:41 +0000 http://www.ktracy.com/?p=280#comment-882 I agree completely, Kevin, and would much prefer to buy American. But realistically, at least with this administration, those things that need to be done aren't going to happen in the near future. We can cross our fingers and "hope" though. I agree completely, Kevin, and would much prefer to buy American. But realistically, at least with this administration, those things that need to be done aren’t going to happen in the near future. We can cross our fingers and “hope” though.

]]> By: kevintracy http://www.ktracy.com/2009/obamas-trip-to-china-shows-just-who-has-the-upper-hand/comment-page-1/#comment-876 kevintracy Thu, 19 Nov 2009 06:36:23 +0000 http://www.ktracy.com/?p=280#comment-876 The thing is that there is a lot we could do domestically to lower the price of consumer goods that will let US manufacturers play on a level playing field. We're in a mutually assured destruction environment now, but there are obvious ways out of it that won't kill US Consumers. The thing is that there is a lot we could do domestically to lower the price of consumer goods that will let US manufacturers play on a level playing field. We’re in a mutually assured destruction environment now, but there are obvious ways out of it that won’t kill US Consumers.

]]> By: Travis Gearhart http://www.ktracy.com/2009/obamas-trip-to-china-shows-just-who-has-the-upper-hand/comment-page-1/#comment-872 Travis Gearhart Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:50:17 +0000 http://www.ktracy.com/?p=280#comment-872 I agree, but I don't think its so much as a leverage, and more of a "mutually insured destruction" type thing. We want cheap Chinese products just as much as their workers need us to buy them, as far as retail, but when it comes to larger things like pipe and automobiles...well, thats where it goes from "mutually insured destruction" to a staring contest. I agree, but I don’t think its so much as a leverage, and more of a “mutually insured destruction” type thing. We want cheap Chinese products just as much as their workers need us to buy them, as far as retail, but when it comes to larger things like pipe and automobiles…well, thats where it goes from “mutually insured destruction” to a staring contest.

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